Hi mapman44,

I see that you removed source=Google 2010-01-17 etc from several thousand ways. This was unnecessary: the ways were legitimately entered from a specific aerial imagery flown on that date for earthquake damage assessment. This was the one & only time that OSM has used google sources.

Removing the tag actually takes away a little bit of OSM history: when first responders wanted the data in OSM enough to persuade Google to allow it.

Jerry aka SK53

Hi mmccnn,

No doubt people are thinking this can be used willy-nilly. I'm afraid people regard the presence of something on a map as giving them the right to use it, even though this has never been the case.

In practice the best way to deal with such issues is to improve the data (a car park can be set with access=private or access=customers : which may sound odd, but would be the appropriate information related to worshippers or people pay respects in the graveyard). I see that the church ceased being used for worship and may now be converted to residential use, so private is more likely.

The reason why it pays to add extra info is that someone may come along at a later time and assume the area was never mapped, and then we'd be back to where we started.

It would also help to know a little more about the current status of the churchyard, what little I see on the internet suggests its under local authority care. Is it accessible to passers-by or also private now?

One last thing. Amazon make extensive use of OpenStreetMap in rural areas for guiding delivery drivers to the right place. Amazon employees may also update things like driveways & parking areas, and may not be aware of local nuances.

We're keen to make sure OpenStreetMap data works for everyone (locals, delivery people, visitors, drivers, walkers, first responders etc.). Usually enhancing the overall information is the best way to do it.

Regards,

Jerry aka SK53

Now removed & replaced by turn:lanes:forward=left|through|through which better reflects actual geometry on the ground (and resolves the crossing error)

I took a short Mapillary sequence travelling W-E https://www.mapillary.com/map/im/ouIIH13BCj03WBpzLP378c. I've also checked signage from other direction. I now believe that the shared-path sign is a warning that NCN6 is just ahead: 1) the pole is co-incident with the tactile paving strip; 2) there is no share-path roundel on the other side of the pole; 3) no cycle route signage pointing to the University approaching the toucan from the N. I therefore think this is not a share use segment, although travelling W-bound it is very likely to be used as such.

I have a feeling that the original University<->Jubilee went along Charnock Avenue to the Sutton Passeys crossing & thence along the W side of Middleton Boulevard, but the paths from the end of Charnock are scarcely used by cyclists now.

I'll do a bit more sleuthing for signage on this side of the QMC roundabout (& collect Mapillary traces too).

Yes, there back last summer on Mapillary https://www.mapillary.com/app/?lat=52.946945&lng=-1.1854080555555555&z=17&focus=photo&pKey=z9nTr677JZa0Gi51waMgo6&x=0.37487418535363703&y=0.44199733048049994&zoom=2

Wow, looks very likely. I'll check in the morning if not before. It looks as though this replaced a cycle in the bus lane sign https://www.mapillary.com/app/?lat=52.947008609965295&lng=-1.1853297800135745&z=17&focus=photo&pKey=HMSMG9VuqD5jfMRgUj2yFg.

Hi Kev,

way/867976441 is not a dual use cycle path and should not be marked as such, even if people use it as one. It is a route pinch point and results in significant conflict between cyclists (electric scooter users too) and pedestrians (and very specifically my Dad, who cant hear cyclists & is at risk of falling every time they zoom past). There are even pinch points on the pavement themselves: not just the bus stop, but the corner of the lodge has a huge CCTV camera base which restricts minimum width to around 1.2 m. I think the route should follow Derby Road itself (probably best to just delete this way & check that sidewalk tags exist on Derby Road).

Cheers,

Jerry

Sounds like Andy did pretty much the same. Richard has suggested using motor_vehicle=discouraged to capture the info from your original note.

When I first looked at this I hadn't appreciated that the stream was the one through Ashbourne. This must be on the cusp of being a river in OSM terms.

Firefishy has changed the access on the ford. I dont know if you know any more. See https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-57335740

Also worth noting that Andy Townsend's UK specific map handles these cases directly in code (i.e., generates a name containing both parts), see https://map.atownsend.org.uk/maps/map/map.html#zoom=19&lat=51.53159&lon=-0.180258. This really shows that the renderer on the main OSM site is just not using such data.

Hi Rob,

You may have heard from Russ already, but he has double checked that WPD are OK with attribution on the wiki page. So I think we can go at this data in earnest.

I have been hunting for the odd STOR whilst adding solar, ever since I saw the one near Ruabon from a coach & wondered what the hell it was.

Availability of substations was one of the things Jack wanted for nowcasting too. I'd been wondering if we could find candidates just by looking at unusual parcels in the LR INSPIRE data.

Jerry

Hi Rob,

Have created a wiki page for the ref:GB:mpan key ref:GB:mpan=*. You may be able to add more to it.

Jerry

Hi & Welcome to OSM,

Thanks for this addition. I'm not sure why anyone would think there was a way through here, there is no path marked & AFAIK the area behind Mr Man's is private land. Only marked paths on OSM can be treated as viable routes for pedestrians, and even then access should be checked.

However, you've distorted the building to close the gap. I've therefore removed your edit & added an actual wall, which will show up as a thin black line.

If there's a specific reason for this edit, such as people making unwarrranted assumptions about where they can go, do let me know. It is often possible to add more relevant details to help in such cases.

Regards,

Jerry aka SK53

I dont know about some of these grass areas. Substantial parts of the area around Marefield are ploughed crops. (Surveyed in June 2015 & again 2018)

@malcolmgc: you're ahead of many of us them.

I distinguish between desire lines & informal paths (although I think all desire lines are informal paths).

A desire line is from A to B for a particular purpose: the following is a very obvious desire line from the gate to the scout hut (https://www.mapillary.com/map/im/tsenzuJQ5lRNE5yLww9fM8). Typical desire lines are from one gate to another of a park, little cut-throughs out of retail car parks to avoid walking the long way round.

Informal paths in general are created by people doing things. A lot more have arisen in places around me during the Covid lockdowns: this one is close to the scout hut path, but is used to enable bigger loops https://www.mapillary.com/app/?lat=52.95125816993464&lng=-1.1819407599981135&z=17&focus=photo&pKey=T1mKW9AWIsElvnA9SW9Fx3 (I havent added it to OSM as a) the path line is indistinct; & b) I dont want everyone using it).

Desire line paths which are heavily used may end up as proper dedicated paths. This example (way/34330968) was a desire line for students to reach the library & the grass never recovered. After about 25 years the university gave in & put in a paved path. I believe a university in the US didnt have any paths when they opened a new campus, but just waited to see where people walked and paved the heaviest desire lines.

The tag(s) are probably most useful in urban areas where the distinctions tend to be clearer.

Hi Malcolm,

I think your conclusion is sensible.

There is no real difference between highway=footway and highway=path in the UK other than for the latter it is essential to include information about which transport modes can use it. In other countries (notably Germany) highway=cycleway means a cycle track only accessible to cyclists and therefore share-use facilities tend to be mapped as paths. I think some have used path in rural areas and footway in urban ones. A final one is using path when it is not known what access permissions might be.

Therefore, in general, it is better to use one of the more explicit highway tags and perhaps focus on adding surface to help differentiate town & country style paths.

The footway=sidewalk & footway=crossing are useful subtags.

Jerry aka SK53

I've already corrected it: I was an intern there in the past. Also corrected the landuse which someone else had changed to military, probably because IGN & others have blurred it out.

Why do you think the Reactor Hall of ILL is a storage tank? It is a containment building for a nuclear reactor.

Hi Marc Marc,

I'm not sure the tag existed when I did this. Golf clubs in UK can be a bit complicated as some function as private members bars (amenity=social_club), but I think in this case clubhouse is appropriate, as I think the latter case is mainly true in Scotland. But if the club house is genuinely private (i.e., you need an invitation) then amenity doesn't seem quite right.

The social club style of pub is common in the UK, Ireland, Australia and possibly Canada. They require membership, but usually this can be acquired very easily, or someone will sign you in as a guest. They are much closer to pubs & bars than ordinary clubs.

Jerry

Abney Park may have been an arboretum around 200 years ago, but certainly not now. Since the cemetery company ran out of cash (1970s IIRC) the place became quite wild with trees self-seeding and growing anywhere. It's full of strange things, which are growing wild: Service Tree of Fontainebleau, Various-leaved Hawthorn. Most photos don't do it justice, as when trees are in leaf the canopy cover makes it too dark for decent photos! In many places the graves are completely obscured by vegetation and so it can be treacherous underfoot. It's rightly now a wild place, even if the mix of trees is somewhat eclectic. There are also plenty of native herbs which have colonised. Also there is very little grass, just odd patches near the two gates and along the S boundary.

Jerry