Hello Black Tusk,

I saw some disagreement with the roundabout in this area. I've since done a survey of the area using semi-professional equipment and verified my work with government lidar and aggregate GPS data. This roundabout, and many other features in Snug Cove, should now be accurate to within about 1 ft.

It may look like the roundabout, and other features, are incorrect when comparing with Bing Maps Aerial and the OpenStreetMap traces but both of those sources have significant issues and shouldn't be used without further on-site verification.

Cheers & happy mapping, eerib

P.S. if you have an Android device you may be interested in the StreetComplete OSM mapping app.

I also used the Strava Heatmap for help with the path at the rec site.

I'll have to admit that I haven't visited the park recently so it's good you caught that the in-person signage hasn't been updated.

This is quite the confusing case as they did unveil a new entrance sign at the renaming ceremony and they've also updated their digital assets (park website, brochure materials, google listing) but I guess they had a delay in updating the in-person signage.

I've been meaning to detail survey the park so I'll look into speeding that up.

As for the revert, it would have been better to manually change the name back to Colony Farm but then have the new name under alt_name with an included note or fixme given the fact that the digital renaming has occurred and the in-person renaming is seemingly under operation.

Same JOSM bug as before. Changeset comment was supposed to be "P2 - Detail Cascade Peninsula campsite"

Changeset comment was supposed to be "Detail around Hick's Lake area" but some bug with JOSM didn't include the rest.

Hello Shinsplints,

This cabin was well publicized on several mediums (Internet forums, Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, etc) and within various niche topics (hiking, mountain biking, trail running, peak bagging, foraging, orienteering, abandoned explorations, etc) before the features were documented on OpenStreetMap so it's hard to determine if and what role OSM played.

My current personal policy for adding "secret" or "sensitive" features such as this cabin is to only add those that are either well publicly publicized and/or well visited. This cabin fit that description and therefore I added it to OSM. I continually discuss this policy with others and am open to constructive changes that revolve around quantitative metrics.

Currently, I have left off all other cabins on the North Shore and nearly all cabins in the Sea-2-Sky region. Looking at recent data suggests that those cabins see significantly less traffic than this one did and therefore do not fit my own personal policy. However, if another user was to add the cabins then I would not remove them as it would go against OSM's ground truth policy.

I should note that there have been more than a dozen cabins on the North Shore destroyed over the years. Often it's because of lightening or accidental fires. None of those cabins were documented on OpenStreetMap.

As a final note I should stress that OSM has a ground truth policy whereby the world is mapped as it exists rather than as one wants it to be displayed. This is different than other platforms you are likely familiar with like TrailForks, which allow significant and frequently arbitrary curation of what is displayed.

I hope this helps provide some background.

Cheers, eerib

Just a heads up, you cannot use TrailForks data to align trails on OpenStreetMap as the TrailForks data is their own proprietary commercial data and hasn't been licensed for use in OpenStreetMap.

Instead, you can use the Strava Heatmap by following this tutorial. This will allow you to get even more accurate pathing than what TrailForks provides.

https://erickdeoliveiraleal.medium.com/tutorial-strava-openstreetmap-josm-or-id-2e2003f4aea3

Good catch! I've switched it back and set the new name as the alt_name.

Hello all,

I have essentially reverted the unintentional vandalism edits in this area with additions of better data.

Please note that removal of private roads and paths is not acceptable and will not be tolerated. OSM is used by emergency services including the BC RCMP, BC Ambulance, BC Wildfire Service, Search & Rescue, and others and having the data is important for their work.

Cheers, eerib

Hello surfingMoose,

Just a heads up, this changeset introduced an error in the Cabin Trail where the entire trail is marked as a bridge rather than just the section over Mystery Creek.

Generally, it's a good idea to merge trails into one long stretch but sometimes it's not best practice. This can include when there are differing features along the way, such as bridges or dramatic differences in trail surface/difficulty/trailbed visibility.

Cheers, eerib

Hello Scott,

I concur with your assessment and have made the change.

Sorry for the delayed reply, the email notifier sent to me got categorized incorrectly by my filter system.

Cheers, eerib

Thank you for the reply.

I think it would be best to contact the Data Working Group for more information as I previously mentioned.

Hello Hamden,

My understanding is that a personal residential apartment that is not open to the general public does not constitute a business location for addition to OpenStreetMap. Just because you ask clients to come to your personal apartment to pay for junk removal, a seemingly far fetched contrived example, does not mean you actually have a business location in the apartment.

If you disagree with my understanding then please take up the issue with the Data Working Group.

data@openstreetmap.org https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Data_Working_Group

Thank you, eerib

The path exists and therefore will remain on OSM as per the ground truth policy. I have added the tags informal=yes and trail_visibility=horrible to reduce the path's emphasis in apps used by the general public such as AllTrails and Gaia GPS.

If you're worried about the cabin, I recommend reaching out to Metro Vancouver's Water Department (LSCR@metrovancouver.org) to have it removed and have warning signage added near the embankment.

I understand you do not want unauthorized or "secret" trails to be shown on OpenStreetMap, however it is not OpenStreetMap's policy to remove unauthorized or "secret" trails. This policy is for several reasons but foremost is because it presents a number of serious safety issues. OpenStreetMap is not just used by recreational users but also emergency responders (Fire & Rescue, BC Ambulance, BC Wildfire Service, Search & Rescue, and others).

The correct approach to dealing with unauthorized trails is to use the informal tag with the value yes. This will result in apps such as AllTrails and Gaia displaying the trail with less emphasis compared to trails without the informal tag or with a value of no.

This changeset has been reverted fully by changeset #137346415. The current tags already deal with the path being unauthorized and leading to a structure and cliff.

This changeset has been reverted fully by changeset #137305412. Deleting a feature that exists violates the ground truth policy. Please refer to the following related wiki pages for more information.

osm.wiki/Ground_truth

osm.wiki/Why_we_won%27t_delete_roads_on_private_property

osm.wiki/Limitations_on_mapping_private_information

The correct approach for dealing with an unsanctioned trail is to use the informal tag, which this trail already has Please refer to the following wiki pages.

osm.wiki/United_States/Trail_Access_Project

informal=*

This changeset has been reverted fully by changeset #137304990. Deleting a feature that exists violates the ground truth policy. Please refer to the following related wiki pages for more information.

osm.wiki/Ground_truth

osm.wiki/Why_we_won%27t_delete_roads_on_private_property

osm.wiki/Limitations_on_mapping_private_information

The correct approach for dealing with an unsanctioned trail is to use the informal tag. Please refer to the following wiki pages.

osm.wiki/United_States/Trail_Access_Project

informal=*

This changeset has been reverted fully by changeset #137304872. Deleting a feature that exists violates the ground truth policy. Please refer to the following related wiki pages for more information.

osm.wiki/Ground_truth

osm.wiki/Why_we_won%27t_delete_roads_on_private_property

osm.wiki/Limitations_on_mapping_private_information

Thank you for catching that! Just fixed it.