Ah yes, Chad's Tool.

The OSM community has had a lot of run-ins with people using Chad's Tool and wanting to break how OSM does mapping. Chad's Tool has a bug in that it doesn't support relations. There is a proposed fix that must be at least 6 months old now that looks like it might fix the problem, but the author hasn't built a new version with that fix yet. There is a pull request on github requesting the fix being incorporated. I've been encouraging people to add their voice to that fix so that it can get built as soon as possible.

I'm not sure I understand your starting point. Do you have a bare fairway and green, neither of which are part of a relation? That is where you should be starting. If the relation already exists, I'll have to learn how the iD editor can modify that.

So, let's assume you draw an area for the fairway and an area for the green. When you are done drawing the fairway area, set it's feature type to Fairway. Draw the area for the green and set the feature type to Putting Green. Then hold down shift and make sure the fairway and green are selected. Right click on either selected line and click the "+" icon to "Merge" the features into a multipolygon relation. That's all you need to do.

No worries. I just want to stop errors before they multiple. Cleaning up one or two now vs. dozens in the future is my goal.

I'll take a look at fixing these up later tonight or this weekend. thanks.

If you can point me at the course, I can probably clean it up faster than I can explain how to correct it. The important part is that you know how not to make the mistake in the future.

A fairway that is nothing else but fairway, should have feature type set to "Fairway". But if there is anything wholly contained inside (green, tee, bunker, etc), then it should be a multipolygon.

If you are creating it from scratch, you would draw the fairway, label it as fairway, draw the bunker/green/whatever, and label it as normal. But then you'd select both (or all) of those objects and merge or combine them (I can't remember what iD, the default editor, calls it). That will do the right thing with creating the multipolygon and merge the tags as appropriate.

But if you are editing existing objects, just make sure and look to see if the fairway is already part of a relation. If you see it as a Line, there's a good chance it is part of a relation and correctly tagged.

I've been doing the entire country over the last three years and I'm nearly done correcting that particular problem. If you see something and are confused, please feel free to reach out. Include URLs of the object in question and I'll look.

thanks!

Thanks nmac! Your quick turnaround is greatly appreciated.

Hey there njberks. Thanks for contributing to golf course mapping on OSM. We appreciate all the help we can get.

However, there is a problem with the change you're making here. You are adding fairway tags where they shouldn't be added.

I've tried to explain it in detail with some graphics to help make it clear. Can you take a look at this and let me know if it makes sense:

osm.wiki/ID_understanding_golf_course_relations

Thanks!

Hey there nmac,

There's a bunch of problems with all of the roughs you drew and I'm hoping you can clean up the problems so that I don't have to.

When drawing golf course elements, you shouldn't ever have areas (roughs, fairways, greens, tees, etc) overlap/intersect each other. Yours do in a lot of places.

You are also putting several adjoining areas together to form larger logical areas, but this is problematic as well. It's better to draw the entire area instead as one big area and not neighboring areas.

If your big area needs to exclude something (like you have a giant area but a lake in the middle), you can use a multipolygon relation to describe the outer boundary and the inner exclusion area. The wiki on openstreetmap.org can help explain those to you.

Please let me know if you have any questions about this. I'd be happy to help you understand and reduce the problems with golf courses on the map. Thanks.

RE: way/1451327574

Please don't share the nodes of the green if you have the fairway surrounding the green. If you can't see any fringe around the green, you should make the fairway butt up to the green and share the nodes on the boundary *between* the green and fairway instead. Please read the wiki for visual examples and instructions on how to better map golf courses: leisure=golf_course#Common_mapping_pitfalls. If you have any questions, please let me know and I'll gladly help clarify things. Thanks!

Heads up jdoedeere, golf=hole lines need to start at the tee and end in the green. I noticed a few of yours were pointed the other way around today. I'm cleaning them up as I find them but thought you should know for future edits. Thanks.

RE: way/1451392555

When drawing golf course areas (such as greens, fairways, bunkers, tees, etc.), please be aware that the ways used to outline those areas can't cross over each other. Fairway outlines shouldn't cross over greens or bunkers or other fairways for example. If you could go back and clean up where you've made this mistake, that would be helpful. But more importantly, if you could stop from doing this in the future, it would be greatly appreciated. Please read the wiki for instructions and examples of how to better map golf courses: leisure=golf_course#Common_mapping_pitfalls. If you have any questions about golf course mapping, feel free to reach out.

RE: way/1451431546

When drawing golf course areas (i.e. greens, fairways, bunkers, tees, etc.), please be aware that the ways (lines) used to outline those areas must not cross over each other. Fairway outlines shouldn't cross over greens or bunkers or other fairways for example. Take a look at osm.wiki/File:Golf.png for an example of the "Wrong" way to map a fairway and a green along with the right way. There are some cases where a fringe exists around a green and you should draw the fairway outline completely around a green, leaving room for the fringe. Other times, the fairway and green butt up against each other. In that case the fairway and green should share the same nodes at the boundary between the two, and every node at the boundary needs to be shared leaving no gaps. When drawing these shared nodes, editors like iD (built into openstreetmap.org) will "snap" to an existing node if you get close enough. If you have any questions about golf course mapping, feel free to reach out. Thanks.

RE: way/1451207927

You shouldn't have two golf course features like the fairway and water hazard intersect/overlap like they do on Hole #4. Your fairway should go around the water. Otherwise, you are saying that everything in that overlap is both fairway grass and water at the same time.

RE: way/1279807753

Why are you creating nearly identical golf course elements with the same tags as existing elements?

Hey there atomic,

Can you explain what is going on with the green at way/1279807753 ? It is overlapping a pond that shows up in several different aerial imagery, none of which I have access to that shows a green is there.

Your green also overlaps with a bunker, which shouldn't happen. Something is either a green or a bunker, it can't be both. Therefore, the area of those shouldn't overlap.

But the bigger question is why the green is overlapping the pond. If you have accurate imagery that we don't, please make sure the pond gets updated as well as the green/bunker overlap.

Thanks

Thanks for your contributions Mark.

In the future, please make sure the greens and fairways don't intersect each other. I realize you were just adding greens and the fairways were already poorly drawn in, but it sets off Q/A checks when they overlap. Thanks.

I understand your frustration Russ. But lashing out and name calling won't be tolerated in the community and can result in your account being banned. I want to work with mappers to make sure quality updates are being made to the map, and what I saw here was not quality. I've been spending the last 3 years cleaning up tens of thousands of golf course features and what often happens is someone X amount of work means 2X amount of cleanup.

You say I didn't look at imagery, but that isn't true. If your changeset is accurate, you used Bing imagery, as did I. If you have imagery that is different I'd love to see it. But with that being said, no imagery exists that would justify a change like this: https://imgur.com/a/0zkjyBx

Fairways should never cross over greens like that. If it was a work-in-progress, you shouldn't be uploading broken geometry like that. There were other problems with your changes as well, but this stood out as particularly egregious.

And then you replace some misclassified things like a cartpath, but instead of just classifying it correctly, you erase it and draw in a sloppy replacement (way/1449476022) with less resolution that improperly doubles back on itself at the north end.

I'm here to help you improve, but I'm not here if you continue to use abusive language. Thanks for attention to this matter.

The Belle Meade changes have been reverted as they violate some very basic principals of golf course mapping. First and foremost, the intersection of golf course areas (fairways, greens, bunkers, tees, roughs, etc). Secondarily, you are deleting someone's work and recreating it instead of modifying existing objects. This obfuscates the history and should be avoided whenever possible. Please read up on the golf_course wiki before proceeding with any golf course mapping. There's a lot of good information there and we're happy to help you improve your mapping. Thanks.

RE: node/9105411079

Please be careful to include ALL nodes along a boundary in your fairway. That particular node was missed and that sets of an automated error check that looks for bunkers that overlap fairways (any golf course areas for that matter.)

Thanks

hello gpneal,

Please make sure the areas on a golf course don't intersect each other. Like on the first hole, your fairway was intersecting the green. Also, it's best to modify existing areas instead of deleting them and drawing them from scratch. You lose valuable history when you delete work. thanks.