Hello! 👋 You can view all OSM diaries at this link: osm.org/diary or all English language ones here: osm.org/diary/en

Facebook is helping demolish racism right now

I trust Amenesty International on topics like this, and they say “Facebook poses an unprecedented danger to human rights”:

the surveillance-based business model of Facebook and Google is inherently incompatible with the right to privacy and poses a systemic threat to a range of other rights including freedom of opinion and expression, freedom of thought, and the right to equality and non-discrimination

Welcome to OSM! I look forward to your contributions. 🙂

Welcome! If you have any questions feel free to reach out

I’m not doing it fun. And whether the OSM licence should be followed is a big deal. If you’re going to fall back on “copyright law is long established”, I’ll fall back on “laws that regulate how you can treat someone is long established”.

Is there any legislation where i (as a private individual) am forbidden to treat you in a certain way because you are not a woman unless the way i treat you is forbidden per se also if i equally treat everyone this way?

I’m having trouble parsing this. 😖 Can you rephrase? Are you asking for a law which says “If you do [thing] to a member of [group] it’s illegal, but it’s not illegal to do [thing] to people who aren’t in [group]?” Various rape laws apply to people based on their age, or mental disabilities. Some anti-discrimination laws only apply “in one direction”. Gender recognition laws for trans people probably can only apply to trans people (who have the certificate).

I look forward to your justification for why the OSM project should require that everyone follow the ODbL.

Comparing the UDHR as the non-binding declaration of ideals to the Berne Convention as a concrete agreement on binding rules of course done not work.

I thought you were saying “I don’t see an universal moral justification for this”, instead of ”This international treaty-type thing was legally adopted by nation states in a different, less binding, way”. You do not seem to have as much of a fundamental objection as I initially thought.

I also don’t see how the UDHR stipulates behavior regulation of person-to-person communication on equal level beyond what is covered by criminal law typically like slander etc.

What about the anti-discrimination parts of the human rights instruments like this? Nearly all anti-discrimination law regulations behavior in person-to-person communication & actions.

What you cite as moral/legal constraints limits what you may contribute to OSM in the first place, it does not restrict what you can do with data you may contribute to OSM.

Data Protection law may or may not limit what information I can contribute to OSM. But it definitly also limits what I can do with that personal information outside the context of OSM. Data protecition law does prevent me from ”doing whatever I want with any data they contribute to OSM”.

This is what the law says, at least in all countries accepting the Berne Convention

Ah! If you can rely on the Berne Convention, then I’ll reply with the UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights. QED. 🙂

“Any mapper may do whatever they want with any data they contribute to OSM” doesn’t work with the EU’s Data Protection Directive (& Charter of Fundamental Rights). Can you justify throwing away these privacy rights? (other examples: military bases, copyright, family law report restrictions, defamation/libel, trade secrets)

Yes, this is a tangent, but I don’t think I understand you, so I’m curious what you would accept as justification for another matter, namely the OSM licence. And, to judge if you would apply this level of requirements to the OSM licence.

they are completely free to allow others to use them beyond the scope of the license

“Any mapper may do whatever they want with any data they contribute to OSM” That’s an interesting perspective. Ignoring derived work (!), can you provide a justification for this rule? (I can think of people & bodies who disagree)

Should we have a copyright/database licence? How can you justify that? Which of your arguments against CoCs cannot be used to say ”We shouldn’t have a database/copyright licence”

Sorry, you’ve lost me. I don’t need to get into this level of philosophical abstraction to justify why I think we should kick people out who campaign to “Kill all Fags”.

i have yet to hear any serious moral defense of universal behavior regulation within the OSM community

I’m trying to parse this. If we have zero behavior regulation, if we have no floor, no bare minimum, then (for example) OSMers who persistently physically assault OSMers at SotM must not be banned from the project (right?). If we have no bare minimum for the whole project, then everything is allowed, right? IMO it’s obvious that from a consequentialist view, we should have a global list of unacceptable behaviours. (The next question is what should be unacceptable)

By the way i am thinking about what changes i should suggest FOSSGIS to request in the local chapter agreement now that this apparently is turning into a cherry picking competition.

I view the changes as applicable to all new LC applications, and will offered to all existing LCs. There bugs. §10.2(b) clearly has an off by one error, and is hence silly. 😉 I’m curious what changes you suggest.

Geofabrik provides regional extracts of OSM data. If you aren’t logged into OSM, you can only get versions without metadata like usernames.

My suggestion is that whenever you see a company name you replace that with the name of a responsible human being

Jeff Bezos?

(I’ll try to say “please” when Amazon try to follow our OEG rules. A little attention to existing norms goes a long way!)

As per the OEG, can you link to the wiki page (under OE/Activities) for this project?

@Rovastar: Yes, Amazon mappers don’t need to use StreetComplete. But Amazon is a big company with many skilled programmers. If you submitted patches to StreetComplete, you would be helping OSM in general. Isn’t that what you want. (😂 my OSM page explains my username)

I suggest you talk to the StreetComplete team, to see if it should support a “quest” to add access tags to gates, with the possibility of Amazon submitting a patch. SC’s ‘on the ground’ survey support helps OSM, and hence you routing. It’s a form of direct, capacity building support Amazon can do, rather than just another organised editing team.

Don’t forget access=yes

access=discouraged is very rare, and risks being a subjective tag, which is a big no-no. I suggest you don’t use that until you can address that concert.

Please follow the Organised Editing Guidelines and write a wiki page about this specific task.

I feel you! OSM just keeps getting bigger, with more people. We can’t stay on top of it all. Which is great IMO.

@Nakaner My main reason: Transparency. I would feel a little deceptive to tweet about OSM without mentioning it. I do also restate that “Opinions my own”.

(Often, people don’t read the twitter bio anyway.)

@mikel I think what’s being asked is about whether we should be tolerant of intolerance. If we are “welcome to all”, does that mean we must be welcoming without limit, even to people acting intolerantly?