@imagico > publish the key parts of the decision making process, in particular risk analysis that has been made on social implications and economic risks.

Yep, I did that in this comment. Clearly that’s not what you want. 🙂 So I ask, why doesn’t that match your requirements? What’s your standard? What do you want?

IMO, I met your standard. I think you think I didn’t. Maybe you need to write up a more detailed standard so I know what to aim for.

@mmd

there needs to be some way to bring important infrastructure parts back into active maintenance. That could mean that you need to actively reach out to the community and possibly find some contractor.

OK, so what are you asking? Should I just post to the mailing list and then have done it? Would you like to do that? I’m telling you now that the people should feel free to reach out to the board. OSM is a do-ocracy. 🙂

There are many projects where it would be nice if they were more active, incl. mod_tile. But what’s the next step? What can I, or the OSMF Board do? We can’t wave a magic wand and generate active FLOSS contributors (can you?). It’s easy to say “I dislike the level of activity of $PROJECT”, it’s harder to actually do something. What are you asking me to do? 🙂

@imagico you have access to the same amount information on these projects as I do. The applications were in ages ago in the form of Microgrant applications. You & I know osm2pgsql & nominatim & potlatch. So then someone suggests they get funding. And I thought “Yes, I know them, sounds good”. Just because I didn’t want to write up all the rules & procedures first doesn’t mean I am not guided by principles & ideas, it doesn’t mean I am making decisions on an ad-hoc basis with any thought. It’s unwritten rules & procedures, like lots of OSM.

Again, what do you actually want? What is your standard? Should I spend the next 2 weeks writing a 10,000 word rule for how exactly I plan to vote as a board member (instead of something else)? Would that be good enough for you?

@mmd Does someone want money to work on mod_tile? Who? What’s the proposal? How much? Serious question.

(Context: I’m on the OSMF Board). The OSMF Board has not yet decided to give the money yet, we are just asking the wider OSM(F) community. The process for making the decision will be a regular circular resolution. I support this funding proposal. The suggestion to fund these came from someone on the board.

I’m not really sure what your complaint is, I think it’s “The OSMF Board hasn’t written detailed policy decisions in advance before suggesting it” and yes you’re right. We’re making decisions on a case-by-case basis here. You want “public documentation of the criteria”? Here’s mine: “These software tools are very popular, and the people behind it have a track record of delivering things the OSM community benefits from”. Is that OK? (If not, please tell me what you are looking for).

We’ve imported some Logainm data into OSM before. There are ways to get the licence clear. Don’t worry, there would be people like me who know this area working on such an import.

Hello! 👋 You can view all OSM diaries at this link: osm.org/diary or all English language ones here: osm.org/diary/en

Facebook is helping demolish racism right now

I trust Amenesty International on topics like this, and they say “Facebook poses an unprecedented danger to human rights”:

the surveillance-based business model of Facebook and Google is inherently incompatible with the right to privacy and poses a systemic threat to a range of other rights including freedom of opinion and expression, freedom of thought, and the right to equality and non-discrimination

Welcome to OSM! I look forward to your contributions. 🙂

Welcome! If you have any questions feel free to reach out

I’m not doing it fun. And whether the OSM licence should be followed is a big deal. If you’re going to fall back on “copyright law is long established”, I’ll fall back on “laws that regulate how you can treat someone is long established”.

Is there any legislation where i (as a private individual) am forbidden to treat you in a certain way because you are not a woman unless the way i treat you is forbidden per se also if i equally treat everyone this way?

I’m having trouble parsing this. 😖 Can you rephrase? Are you asking for a law which says “If you do [thing] to a member of [group] it’s illegal, but it’s not illegal to do [thing] to people who aren’t in [group]?” Various rape laws apply to people based on their age, or mental disabilities. Some anti-discrimination laws only apply “in one direction”. Gender recognition laws for trans people probably can only apply to trans people (who have the certificate).

I look forward to your justification for why the OSM project should require that everyone follow the ODbL.

Comparing the UDHR as the non-binding declaration of ideals to the Berne Convention as a concrete agreement on binding rules of course done not work.

I thought you were saying “I don’t see an universal moral justification for this”, instead of ”This international treaty-type thing was legally adopted by nation states in a different, less binding, way”. You do not seem to have as much of a fundamental objection as I initially thought.

I also don’t see how the UDHR stipulates behavior regulation of person-to-person communication on equal level beyond what is covered by criminal law typically like slander etc.

What about the anti-discrimination parts of the human rights instruments like this? Nearly all anti-discrimination law regulations behavior in person-to-person communication & actions.

What you cite as moral/legal constraints limits what you may contribute to OSM in the first place, it does not restrict what you can do with data you may contribute to OSM.

Data Protection law may or may not limit what information I can contribute to OSM. But it definitly also limits what I can do with that personal information outside the context of OSM. Data protecition law does prevent me from ”doing whatever I want with any data they contribute to OSM”.

This is what the law says, at least in all countries accepting the Berne Convention

Ah! If you can rely on the Berne Convention, then I’ll reply with the UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights. QED. 🙂

“Any mapper may do whatever they want with any data they contribute to OSM” doesn’t work with the EU’s Data Protection Directive (& Charter of Fundamental Rights). Can you justify throwing away these privacy rights? (other examples: military bases, copyright, family law report restrictions, defamation/libel, trade secrets)

Yes, this is a tangent, but I don’t think I understand you, so I’m curious what you would accept as justification for another matter, namely the OSM licence. And, to judge if you would apply this level of requirements to the OSM licence.

they are completely free to allow others to use them beyond the scope of the license

“Any mapper may do whatever they want with any data they contribute to OSM” That’s an interesting perspective. Ignoring derived work (!), can you provide a justification for this rule? (I can think of people & bodies who disagree)

Should we have a copyright/database licence? How can you justify that? Which of your arguments against CoCs cannot be used to say ”We shouldn’t have a database/copyright licence”

Sorry, you’ve lost me. I don’t need to get into this level of philosophical abstraction to justify why I think we should kick people out who campaign to “Kill all Fags”.

i have yet to hear any serious moral defense of universal behavior regulation within the OSM community

I’m trying to parse this. If we have zero behavior regulation, if we have no floor, no bare minimum, then (for example) OSMers who persistently physically assault OSMers at SotM must not be banned from the project (right?). If we have no bare minimum for the whole project, then everything is allowed, right? IMO it’s obvious that from a consequentialist view, we should have a global list of unacceptable behaviours. (The next question is what should be unacceptable)

By the way i am thinking about what changes i should suggest FOSSGIS to request in the local chapter agreement now that this apparently is turning into a cherry picking competition.

I view the changes as applicable to all new LC applications, and will offered to all existing LCs. There bugs. §10.2(b) clearly has an off by one error, and is hence silly. 😉 I’m curious what changes you suggest.

Geofabrik provides regional extracts of OSM data. If you aren’t logged into OSM, you can only get versions without metadata like usernames.

My suggestion is that whenever you see a company name you replace that with the name of a responsible human being

Jeff Bezos?

(I’ll try to say “please” when Amazon try to follow our OEG rules. A little attention to existing norms goes a long way!)