Please dont do this. I explained why you should not on the OSM-UK Loomio site.

The wiki is incorrect!

Oh take that back, have seen the photos now: not true steps.

Shouldn't this also have a section mapped with highway=steps (I realise it might not be possible to identify exactly where, but even a small section would improve information to routers).

Regards,

Jerry aka SK53

Hi Will,

Can you remember the source for "Pinfold Close"?

This has recently been updated from building_name to name which is clearly incorrect. The current owner does not use the name, but I see the house is referred to as Pinfold House on the Bramcote Local History website.

Obviously the simplest thing would be to restore your original tag (which I will do), but I wondered if there might be other tags which could be used.

Jerry

Hi Marc,

You seem to misunderstand how OSM works. The OSM-UK community has well-established principles as to how to map place=*: they do not use the population at all, but place the population in the sensibly-named population tag. Britain has a number of places with a small population which have been cities for hundreds of years. There are differences between the constituent parts of the United Kingdom too. More recent elevation to city status has been through official charters, such as the recent elevation of Southend-on-Sea to city status.

You must always take what is written in the wiki with a pinch of salt. A population-based approach has never satisfactorily coped with differences between, or even, within countries.

But, the most important rule of OSM is about building consensus. If the thousands of contributors in the UK have been happy with a particular value of place=* for 10 or more years there has to be an absolutely compelling (documented) reason for change.

Yours,

Jerry aka SK53

check_date is very much a tag only regularly used by StreetComplete (and for good reasons: I'm not going to mark every shop I see which hasn't changed with a check_date).

OSM is not fantastically well stuctured to allow capture of this kind of meta data, largely because a check_date increments the version count. Separate metatags might help, but that would require a new API call and database changes.

Thanks, I forgot to mention that I did recently look at grading of paths in the Lakes (after the Barf incident around Christmas) and wrote a couple of entries about them:
@SK53/diary/400702
@SK53/diary/400712
http://sk53-osm.blogspot.com/2023/01/a-little-surprise-hidden-in-os.html

The key difference between T4 & T5 is that the latter involves some (easy) 3-point climbing technique at some point. So Broad Stand is probably a good candidate for T5 if it were mapped.

Elsewhere in Britain experienced hiking guides have done some good work on checking the harder routes: such as on An Teallach. There were some good threads on mastodon (linked in my posts). So I think we are collectively working towards consistent usage of these scales in the UK. A bit harder to know if these are consistent with usage elsewhere.

One point is that the T4- and T4+ values could be used if there is a need to separate alternatives which are of different character. At present the Foxes Tarn ascent of Scafell is graded T3 so this is not needed.

I'm also very pleased about the action concerning the short-cut path marked bypassing the col at Broad Pike (way/1086252957#map=17/54.45589/-3.21152&layers=D).

Jerry aka SK53

The wikidata advice although on the wikipage for a long time is probably the personal opinion of a long-term wikimedian and wikidata enthusiast. Not necessarily a considered view of it's value in the community.

The problem with all such well-intentioned edits is that they push up the last edit date and version count for little value. This has the effect of making it harder to spot things which DO need checking at a local level.

Doing a basic join on value from OSM to wikidata works just as well as adding an additional key. The wikidata item already has an entry for the OSM key which effectively does this work already.

Please dont use railway=platform & public_transport=platform. These cause these elements to show up as live passenger platforms which is not helpful. Always stick a lifecycle prefix on these elements.

I think this is now overgraded. T5 is not something likely to be encountered on any widely used 'path' in the Lakes or most other places in the British Isles.

Lord's Rake is (or certainly) was an unpleasant ascent, and it does have some objective dangers over recent years from rock fall etc. This gives a good feel for the crux on a standard T5 route https://www.hikr.org/gallery/photo2405005.html?post_id=122152#1. A steeply angled slab with exposure down to a glacier. This is significant harder than anything on Lord's Rake.

I realise that the SAC Scale may be interpreted differently in the UK, but in the longer term it is better to keep to the original definition. Not only does this help consistency, but will not result in British hikers being misled as to what the T4, T5 and T6 alpine hiking grades actually entail.

The isolated track near Mousthwaite Comb looks rather odd. It also doesn't seem to be visible on imagery taken in August 2022.

What value does adding a wikidata tag perform here? Presumably this is via the name suggestion index.

Barry, This may be a good candidate for a rule in the Name Suggestion Index (e.g., https://nsi.guide/?t=brands) which would enable other editors to add the correct operator.

Jerry aka SK53

@gurglypipe: I agree with you, but what Paul describes is the broad consensus of the UK community.

I personally feel that defining addr:* tags as related to postal information only was a mistake: but it was exactly what the Karlsruhe scheme designers intended. It does mean that for non-postal uses of address, OSM data as it stands is less useful and needs some kind of post-processing. For a long time I've even avoided using addr:city and addr:suburb at all because of the non-obvious meanings. But, I do accept I'm now in a minority.

Hi,

You seem to be adding things which don't exist. OSM is used by real people to do real things in real life: please dont use it to see how things might be.

Regards,

Jerry aka SK53

Source image for VR royal_cypher: https://www.mapillary.com/app/?pKey=175971688130124

I think it's more useful to mark all the roads as access=no & also all the Wanderwege above Vazerol & below Brienz are closed as well.

I've added a short wiki page just to try and cover these somewhat obscure keys: osm.wiki/Tagging_of_peak_lists_in_Great_Britain_and_Ireland

Why not consult the local community who are very active instead of just tag-fiddling!

A Munro top is not a Munro. Whilst it's worth discussing whether munro_top or munro:top=yes or munro=top are sensible tag choices, changing a tag so that the meaning is incorrect doesn't help overmuch.